Rory's lesbian kiss? This show is finished!!!

[Jim Summers87]

I can't believe that the "Gilmore Girls" writers have decided to throw in this
lesbian kiss/spring break crap to boost ratings. How pathetic. Maybe they
should just admit that the show has run it's course and close down shop
now.....

[Count Orrlock]

The review I read described Paris as "butch." Does anyone think she fits that
category?!?! Maybe they just made an "i" for a "u" mistake. :O)

[Dennis B]

Post by Count Orrlock
The review I read described Paris as "butch." Does anyone think she fits that
category?!?! Maybe they just made an "i" for a "u" mistake. :O)

This link might explain why this is occurring. What worked for "Buffy"
doesn't work for GG; when they brought Espenson over the show flew
downhill. It's like having Ozzy sing lead for the Beatles, just not a
good fit.

http://web.wm.edu/news/?id=3548

[J.Duluoz]

Post by Jim Summers87
I can't believe that the "Gilmore Girls" writers have decided to throw in this
lesbian kiss/spring break crap to boost ratings. How pathetic. Maybe they
should just admit that the show has run it's course and close down shop
now.....

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

You can see a picture of the kiss here:
http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/18257.htm

It really look like a passionate kiss! I think they will marry next
season, Kirk will turn out to be a serial killer and Emilly an ex
prostitute, that should boost the ratings too...

Oh! Wait, it's just Paris who test her kissing skill on Rory! Just like
when Amanda and Busy kiss in "Ready or Not" 10 years ago. Ha! canadian
t.v. we are 10 years in advance...

[Dallas Stars!]

Post by J.Duluoz
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/18257.htm
It really look like a passionate kiss! I think they will marry next
season, Kirk will turn out to be a serial killer and Emilly an ex
prostitute, that should boost the ratings too...

LOL...

Post by J.Duluoz
Oh! Wait, it's just Paris who test her kissing skill on Rory! Just like
when Amanda and Busy kiss in "Ready or Not" 10 years ago. Ha! canadian
t.v. we are 10 years in advance...

Michele Greene and Amanda Donohoe kissed on "L.A. Law" back in 1991...

For any who are interested, I found this while researching the date of the
Greene/Donohoe kiss: A time line of lesbian/bi characters on U.S.
television. Very interesting.

http://www.afterellen.com/TV/Timeline-TV.html

~t

-------------------------------------
Playoff hockey...accept no substitute.

STARS!!!

[Anne]

Come on. Isn't this just a girlie "gee do I kiss good?" kind of thing ?
Sure - it's pathetic at their age - more like a 9 year old's experiment
(kissing hands, and pillows, and maybe their friends?). Especially silly
since Paris has seen more action than Rory.

I'd be amazed if there was the slightest bit of lesbian subtext involved.

[Rob Jensen]

Post by Anne
Come on. Isn't this just a girlie "gee do I kiss good?" kind of thing ?
Sure - it's pathetic at their age - more like a 9 year old's experiment
(kissing hands, and pillows, and maybe their friends?). Especially silly
since Paris has seen more action than Rory.
I'd be amazed if there was the slightest bit of lesbian subtext involved.

Well, it *is* the "Gee do I kiss good" kind of thing. The problem
is that homophobes can't handle that there's no homosexual
intent behind such activity. And I suppose it's no help that the
pervs in the audience can recontextualize such activity in
their own minds and enjoy it for the mildly homosexual
outcome, regardless of intent.

I'll be keeping in mind that it's the "do I kiss good?" thang and
observing Rory's reaction in the context of her arc for the season,
which has been primarily concerned with her social awkwardness
and naiivete.

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Dennis B]

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Anne
Come on. Isn't this just a girlie "gee do I kiss good?" kind of thing ?
Sure - it's pathetic at their age - more like a 9 year old's experiment
(kissing hands, and pillows, and maybe their friends?). Especially silly
since Paris has seen more action than Rory.
I'd be amazed if there was the slightest bit of lesbian subtext involved.

Well, it *is* the "Gee do I kiss good" kind of thing. The problem
is that homophobes can't handle that there's no homosexual
intent behind such activity.

How do you know, though, was Paris' intent was? They could be setting
something up for next season. If I recall correctly, Willow from
"Buffy" didn't start out as a lesbian character, but eventually
emerged as one. Since one of the Buffy writers is on board now, maybe
this is a harbringer (probably not, but it's food for thought). My
feeling is that if anyone decided to become a lesbian "for political
reasons" (which does happen with women in college) it would be Paris.
Rory, I'm sure wouldn't be her first choice, though. She's probably go
for an older woman...perhaps a professor?




And I suppose it's no help that the

Post by Rob Jensen
pervs in the audience can recontextualize such activity in
their own minds and enjoy it for the mildly homosexual
outcome, regardless of intent.
I'll be keeping in mind that it's the "do I kiss good?" thang and
observing Rory's reaction in the context of her arc for the season,
which has been primarily concerned with her social awkwardness
and naiivete.
-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Rob Jensen]

"Anne"

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Anne
Come on. Isn't this just a girlie "gee do I kiss good?" kind of thing ?
Sure - it's pathetic at their age - more like a 9 year old's experiment
(kissing hands, and pillows, and maybe their friends?). Especially silly
since Paris has seen more action than Rory.
I'd be amazed if there was the slightest bit of lesbian subtext involved.

Well, it *is* the "Gee do I kiss good" kind of thing. The problem
is that homophobes can't handle that there's no homosexual
intent behind such activity.

How do you know, though, was Paris' intent was? They could be setting
something up for next season.

Just going by the plot description that I'd read in advance
and the confirmation of said plot description by tonight's
episode. First rule of character evaluation: you use Ockham's
Razor to evaluate the reliability of a character's words and
behavior. Paris, while butch, likely isn't gay. Confused about
how to express her (straight) sexual identity, yes, but confused
nonetheless.

If I recall correctly, Willow from
"Buffy" didn't start out as a lesbian character, but eventually
emerged as one. Since one of the Buffy writers is on board now, maybe
this is a harbringer (probably not, but it's food for thought). My
feeling is that if anyone decided to become a lesbian "for political
reasons" (which does happen with women in college) it would be Paris.
Rory, I'm sure wouldn't be her first choice, though. She's probably go
for an older woman...perhaps a professor?

Willow's saying, "Hey, I think I'm a little gay" in reaction
to seeing her Doppleganglander is a slightly different situation
than Paris's insecure stunt in tonight's episode. Willow was
revealing a part of herself that even she didn't know about 'til
right then, Paris wasn't intending to reveal anything -- she was
just trying to get guys to notice her. Paris is more analogous
to Anya -- an offbeat person with serious impulse control
issues.

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Heidi In hiding]

My feeling is that if anyone decided to become a lesbian "for political
reasons" (which does happen with women in college) it would be Paris. <<

Excuse me, but what???? First, what does it mean to become a lesbian "for
political reasons" and second, what do you mean that it "does happen with women
in college"???

I mean, I went to college and you'd think I would have noticed this. Please
explain!

[Dallas Stars!]

Post by Heidi In hiding

My feeling is that if anyone decided to become a lesbian "for political
reasons" (which does happen with women in college) it would be Paris. <<

Excuse me, but what???? First, what does it mean to become a lesbian "for
political reasons" and second, what do you mean that it "does happen with women
in college"???
I mean, I went to college and you'd think I would have noticed this. Please
explain!

LUGs. Lesbians until graduation. It's a term I've heard about for well over
a decade now. Women experimenting with lesbianism or bisexuality while in
college who may or may not be homosexual.

~t

-------------------------------------
Playoff hockey...accept no substitute.

STARS!!!

[Dennis B]

Post by Heidi In hiding

Post by Heidi In hiding

My feeling is that if anyone decided to become a lesbian "for political
reasons" (which does happen with women in college) it would be Paris. <<

Excuse me, but what???? First, what does it mean to become a lesbian "for
political reasons" and second, what do you mean that it "does happen with

women

Post by Heidi In hiding
in college"???
I mean, I went to college and you'd think I would have noticed this.

Please

Post by Heidi In hiding
explain!

LUGs. Lesbians until graduation. It's a term I've heard about for well over
a decade now. Women experimenting with lesbianism or bisexuality while in
college who may or may not be homosexual.

Glad someone else knows of this - I'm on the East Coast, and it may be
an East Coast thing.

Post by Heidi In hiding
~t
-------------------------------------
Playoff hockey...accept no substitute.
STARS!!!

[Rob Jensen]

Post by Dennis B

Post by Dallas Stars!
LUGs. Lesbians until graduation. It's a term I've heard about for well over
a decade now. Women experimenting with lesbianism or bisexuality while in
college who may or may not be homosexual.

Glad someone else knows of this - I'm on the East Coast, and it may be
an East Coast thing.

Well, the thing is, people experimenting with homosexuality
is far less of a novelty out here on the Left Coast. I think it's
the proximity to San Francisco to the north and West Hollyweird
to the south.

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Dennis B]

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Dennis B

Post by Dallas Stars!
LUGs. Lesbians until graduation. It's a term I've heard about for well over
a decade now. Women experimenting with lesbianism or bisexuality while in
college who may or may not be homosexual.

Glad someone else knows of this - I'm on the East Coast, and it may be
an East Coast thing.

Well, the thing is, people experimenting with homosexuality
is far less of a novelty out here on the Left Coast. I think it's
the proximity to San Francisco to the north and West Hollyweird
to the south.
-- Rob

Maybe it's West Coast in terms of "experimentation," but it's East
Coast when it comes to it being a political thing. In the early 1990s,
my ex-g/f took a women's studies course at Princeton where one of
points of the course was that lesbianism was natural for women. The
professor's idea of a utopian society was that women would live
together in vllages with men coming and going, just to supply sperm.
I'm not making this up, honest.
In the town where I live (outside DC, very East Coast liberal), there
is a sort of "small town legend" about the feminist editor of the
newspaper teaching such a course in the 1970s and "all the women in
town left their women for other women." Hyperbole, but you get the
point. Way off topic...

Post by Rob Jensen
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Rob Jensen]

Post by Dennis B
Maybe it's West Coast in terms of "experimentation," but it's East
Coast when it comes to it being a political thing.

I think if it's done for a "political thing" rather than for
accurate sexual self-expression, then it's by definition
experimentation. It's like, "You're going gay to make a
political point? Oh, grow *up!*" To my way of thinking,
that's a far more boneheaded reason for crossing orientation
than if, say, Jack on Will & Grace were to sleep with Cher
because she's, like, his idol. At least there'd be Jack's
bizarre form of love underlying his switch-hitting for Cher.

OTOH, if more *guys* were willing to experiment with being
gay to make a bogus political point, that would be aces with me
as it would mean, hey, (churning butter dance) I'd have less
competition for the women.

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Elden]

----------

Post by Rob Jensen
OTOH, if more *guys* were willing to experiment with being
gay to make a bogus political point, that would be aces with me
as it would mean, hey, (churning butter dance) I'd have less
competition for the women.

You sure of this?

I think any guy who pouts a lot and does a churning butter dance would still
have problems with women.





Elden

[Rob Jensen]

Post by Elden

Post by Rob Jensen
OTOH, if more *guys* were willing to experiment with being
gay to make a bogus political point, that would be aces with me
as it would mean, hey, (churning butter dance) I'd have less
competition for the women.

You sure of this?
I think any guy who pouts a lot and does a churning butter dance would still
have problems with women.

Of *course* I would. I thought that was self-evident?

I wear my geekdom on my sleeve, even though my recent
imposter tried to appropriate my self-deprecating nature for
nefarious purposes.

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Elden]

----------

Post by Dennis B
my ex-g/f took a women's studies course at Princeton where one of
points of the course was that lesbianism was natural for women. The
professor's idea of a utopian society was that women would live
together in vllages with men coming and going, just to supply sperm.
I'm not making this up, honest.

Would all the women walk around topless?





Elden

[Rob Jensen]

Post by Dennis B
In the early 1990s,
my ex-g/f took a women's studies course at Princeton where one of
points of the course was that lesbianism was natural for women. The
professor's idea of a utopian society was that women would live
together in vllages with men coming and going, just to supply sperm.
I'm not making this up, honest.

Didn't this professor realize she had just described reality,
not any kind of a utopia?

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Dennis B]

Post by Heidi In hiding

My feeling is that if anyone decided to become a lesbian "for political
reasons" (which does happen with women in college) it would be Paris. <<

Excuse me, but what???? First, what does it mean to become a lesbian "for
political reasons" and second, what do you mean that it "does happen with women
in college"???
I mean, I went to college and you'd think I would have noticed this. Please
explain!

I mean the girls I knew in college who took went lesbian for a few
years, then changed back after college ended. Many of them took
Women's Studies courses, where it was the politically-correct thing to
do to NOT date men. You never met these type? Where did you go to
school? And when?

Do a Web search and you're sure to find lots of info in this. The
Washington Post also recently did a story on this sort of thing
starting in high school (but for social, not political reasons). It
was called "Partway Gay." Look it up!

Anyway, I can easily cite ten women I knew who did this - and doezens
more who were aquaintances or who I heard about second hand. And many
seemed to be wealthy, Jewish, and very smart - hence my Paris
comparison.

[Sharpe Fan]

Post by Dennis B

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Anne
Come on. Isn't this just a girlie "gee do I kiss good?" kind of thing ?
Sure - it's pathetic at their age - more like a 9 year old's experiment
(kissing hands, and pillows, and maybe their friends?). Especially silly
since Paris has seen more action than Rory.
I'd be amazed if there was the slightest bit of lesbian subtext involved.

Well, it *is* the "Gee do I kiss good" kind of thing. The problem
is that homophobes can't handle that there's no homosexual
intent behind such activity.

How do you know, though, was Paris' intent was? They could be setting
something up for next season. If I recall correctly, Willow from
"Buffy" didn't start out as a lesbian character, but eventually
emerged as one. Since one of the Buffy writers is on board now, maybe
this is a harbringer (probably not, but it's food for thought).

A Bringer? You mean one of those creepy blind guys who worked for The
First? I hope not.


Sharpe Fan

[Rob Jensen]

"Anne"

Post by Dennis B

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Anne
Come on. Isn't this just a girlie "gee do I kiss good?" kind of thing

?

Post by Dennis B

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Anne
Sure - it's pathetic at their age - more like a 9 year old's experiment
(kissing hands, and pillows, and maybe their friends?). Especially

silly

Post by Dennis B

Post by Rob Jensen

Post by Anne
since Paris has seen more action than Rory.
I'd be amazed if there was the slightest bit of lesbian subtext

involved.

Post by Dennis B

Post by Rob Jensen
Well, it *is* the "Gee do I kiss good" kind of thing. The problem
is that homophobes can't handle that there's no homosexual
intent behind such activity.

How do you know, though, was Paris' intent was? They could be setting
something up for next season. If I recall correctly, Willow from
"Buffy" didn't start out as a lesbian character, but eventually
emerged as one. Since one of the Buffy writers is on board now, maybe
this is a harbringer (probably not, but it's food for thought).

A Bringer? You mean one of those creepy blind guys who worked for The
First? I hope not.

LOL. My Freudian Slip is showing.

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Rob Jensen]

If I had a dime for every time a fan declared a show was finished
after hearing about any kind of a plot point in advance, I'd be
a billionaire. (rolls eyes)

-- Rob
-----------------------------------------
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount Doom, but that's only
because the girls went to do something even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?